machetunim

[fox]

It is a well-known fact that every language lacks some expressions for which other languages have perfect words. My father's favorite example is gemütlich, a German word that I understand (not being a native speaker) to mean something like 'comfortable' and something like 'comforting', but not either of those things and not precisely both of them together. (See what I mean?)

One of mine is macheteyneste, a Yiddish word that according to Leo Rosten means:

mother-in-law

future mother-in-law

son or daughter's future mother-in-law

son or daughter's mother-in-law (he says this is the most exact meaning)

What an excellent relationship to have a special word for. The macheteyneste is (or normally at least once was) married to the machuten, and they and their family are one's machetunim. We have "in-laws", sure; but while my brother's wife's family are not my in-laws, they are (I believe) my machetunim.

I propose adding an extra "-in-law" to people one more step removed from relationship by blood. So:

me -> my brother => his wife; my sister-in-law -> her sister; his sister-in-law; my sister-in-law-in-law

For convenience, however, I suggest that people married to siblings use only one layer of "in-law" when referring to each other:

my brother => his wife -> her sister; his sister-in-law => the sister's husband; my brother's [wife's] brother-in-law

Interestingly, we don't do this at all with relatives beyond the first degree. You call the woman married to your uncle either (a) your aunt or (b) your uncle's wife (depending on how you feel about her, I'd wager) -- I don't know anybody who says "aunt-in-law", not even to describe the sister of her mother-in-law. Ditto grandparents and cousins.

Anyone who's got a submission for "sister-in-law-in-law", I'd love to hear it.

Comments

[gaeta.livejournal.com]

I think we don't say "aunt-in-law" by virtue of the blood relationship through cousins (or even, I suppose, potential cousins). On the other hand, it seems quite possible for this relationship to be severed by divorce. I don't think my former sister-in-law's children consider me their "aunt" even though I am the mother of their cousins.


As for the in-law-in-law, what's wrong with "my brother's sister-in-law"?

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

I don't think my former sister-in-law's children consider me their "aunt" even though I am the mother of their cousins.

but suppose you (or she; here's another one: in russian, there are -- or at least used to be -- different sister-in-law words for "husband's sister" and "brother's wife", and aren't there times when that would be useful) were still married, but had no children. you get the same name for being married to their mother's brother as you would if you were their mother's sister. ... i suppose it's because of the presumption that a couple could have children even if they have no intentions of ever doing so.

what's wrong with "my brother's sister-in-law"?

semantics. that describes her relationship to him, or at the outside my relationship to her in terms of him. what i'm after is something that describes her relationship to me. :-)

[sociofemme.livejournal.com]

It's funny, in my family, we aren't much for specifics like that. I like genealogy, so I know terms like removed and how to count cousins (e.g. first cousin, second cousin), and which people are married in versus born in, but what we tend to do is that everyone in your generation who isn't a sibling or married to your sibling is your cousin. Everyone in the generation above you who isn't a parent is an aunt or uncle. Generation below? Niece or nephew. Two generations above? Grandparent.

I like this custom very much--we've gotten into it mostly because of my Tita Chary, whose native language is a Bontoc language (northern Philippines dialect), and it's so nice and inclusive.

It's funny, you're trying to find a specific word, and I'd probably be most likely to call the sister-in-law-in-law my sister...or cousin, depending on how I felt about her. *g* Not too helpful!

(And divorce would wreak HAVOC with this, I bet. Good thing we only have one incidence of it where this would be an issue, out of the [+/-] 50 closest of us.)

[gaeta.livejournal.com]

Well, your brother's wife is one relationship, right? And your husband's sister is another. Yet, the two people-- the sister and the wife -- "share" this asymmetrical relatiohnship. There isn't one relationship to describe this connection; it's two complementary relationships. It's odd, in a way, that the two people involved are called "sister" in the first place. (or, by the same token, "brother"). Of course, we're given "mothers" and "daughters" by the same familial system. That's no less odd.

I dunno. I haven't taken any drugs, so I probably just need to go to bed.