oh, for fuck's sake.

[fox]

This article about the Growing Problem of kids who swear all the time has me scratching my head quite a bit.

I mean, I hear what they're saying about how elementary schools aren't the place for profanity, and blah blah blah.  But, first of all, are these (often youngish) teachers seriously looking us in the eye and saying they never made a concerted effort to curse up a blue streak when they were twelve?  It's a thing kids do, frankly, and yes, as much as I normally take the teachers' side in disagreements with the administration, YES, your principals and other administors DO have bigger fish to fry.  There are metal detectors in your schools for a reason, people, and in case you missed it there's federal education policy that cares less and less about you doing your job and more and more about your students correctly filling in bubble sheets, and if kids aren't learning things it's not because their brains are full of words you think they're too young to use.

JESUS.

Teach them, since you're teachers -- teach them about register, yeah?  There's language that's appropriate for this or that situation, and inappropriate language for the classroom isn't limited to profanity, after all.  For the love of god, if I had kids in school and you tried to suspend them for what they said (and what they said wasn't a threat of violence against a classmate or a teacher), fuck YEAH I'd be in there arguing with you about it, and you might not like my language either.  And I'm the child of public-school teachers, okay?  I'm one of the ones who's ON YOUR SIDE.

And secondly, here's this quote:

Horwich said constant use of profanity reveals a poor vocabulary, and O'Connor lamented the toll it is taking on the language.

"There are words virtually disappearing from our English language," O'Connor said.  "When people are mad, what do they say?  They say they are pissed off or [expletive] pissed off.  No range.  There is a big difference between being upset or livid. There is a big difference between irritated and infuriated."

Yeah, and there's a big difference between whining and wanking, bonehead.  There are words disappearing from our language.  News flash:  THAT HAPPENS.  Words appear in the language, as well.  This is hardly, as I mentioned above, the first generation in which any of this has occurred.  GAH.  Maybe pull your heads out of your collective ass and recognize that the vitality of language is neither new nor the end of the world, and stop trying to make us believe that's your major concern in trying to get kids to clean up their language on the goddamn playground.

Comments

[chains-of-irony.livejournal.com]

My opinion on swearwords has always been that they're just words. I mean, I wonder how they got to be so taboo in the first place?

You're right. Schools do have bigger fish to fry.

[titti]

I actually agree with them. I grew up in a house where profanity wasn't used. EVER. I try with my kids, and don't always successed. If I hear my kids use a curse, I talk to them and explain why that word shouldn't be used. If they say it a second time, they get another warning. They use it a third time, and they get smacked right on the mouth.

My block is filled with kids. I've heard things that would make you pale. I listened as a 10 year old telling another 10 year old "I want to eat your pussy", and I doubt he knew what he was saying. (Or at least I hope so). I hear how fag, faggot, and nigger are used to insult.

Someone calls my daughter a bitch in school. Hell yes, I want that kid suspended. Then again, if my daughters used that language, suspension would be the least of their problems.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

Yayyy! Fox in rant mode! Linguistics can be the toughest bitch on the block too!

[mearagrrl.livejournal.com]

I always figure suspension is not a great answer--to most anything! After all, not having to go to school? Rock! Plus, PITA for the parent who has to find daycare.

I think detention for cussing is not out of line, though--kids need to be appropriate, and learn what respectful and correct behavior is, and if they can't remember or don't care to act properly, there should be consequences. Not huge ones, but inconvenient ones like detention seem appropriate.

[helenish.livejournal.com]

The profanity v. vocabulary argument doesn't wash, at all, since I feel that "propensity to use profanity" and "propensity to develop vocabulary" are two utterly non-correlated activities. Some people with limited vocabularies swear, and some don't. Some people with HUGE vocabularies swear, and RELISH profanity, and some don't. I really don't think, however, that "Odds Bodkins, but I am mightily perturbed over this excretory development" is really better than "Oh god DAMN this motherfucking PIECE OF SHIT ANYHOW! FUCK! Balls!"

It's a stupid argument. Just point out that it's inappropriate conduct and call it a day.

Anecdotally: I grew up in a household where we were chastised for swearing (and swearing included 'damn' and 'darn', even) but my dad swore, on occasion, and my mother used nutty colloquial phrases like "Dad Gumit."

Result: I swear often and profusely, and, in times of stress, bust out exactly the same phrases (down to emphases) that my dad did. So there you are. Also, naturellement, I have an excellent vocabulary.

[ellen-fremedon.livejournal.com]

My favoritest-ever take on the subject of profanity: this rant (http://www.livejournal.com/users/merripestin/16294.html) from merripestin.

Oh, ferfuckessakes.

[the-emu.livejournal.com]

Suspension? Over words? If schools are hauling out the big guns for petty shite like this, what's left for bigger offences? What do you do to kids who cheat on exams or talk threateningly or steal or fight in the playground? It trivialises suspension. How serious can suspension be if Tommy got a couple of days off school just for saying 'fuck' a couple of times too many? This is like the junior logic to arguments for sending petty criminals to jail. Pulling children out of school needs to be a last resort.


But what *really* pisses me off is people disguising moral priggery as linguistics without an ounce of fucking logic.

Swearing is not a sign of a poor or limited vocabulary. By definition it is the person who chooses not to swear who has limited their vocabulary. One cannot get all snooty about the decay of the English language when one does not understand such basic English as that.

But then, in the same breath this guy complains that there's no range between 'pissed off' and 'fucking pissed off'. I hope he's not an English teacher, if he can't recognise that the application of 'fucking' as a dysphemic synonym for 'very' in this context both intensifies the adjective phrase and accentuates the social unacceptability of his mood, all while utilising harsh consonants for an acoustic emphasis on mood which is entirely lacking in all of the alternatives he provides.


Why do people insist on talking like swearing *just* got invented? Oh, yes, the English language was fine and pure until the young people of today came along! It hadn't changed a whit since Shakespeare's day and now... oh, no, wait... I seen to remember a few cunts and cocks in Shakespeare... shall we go back to Chaucer? And his dirty little rimming ditty?

Swearing doesn't take a toll on language. It is a natural part of the evolution of the language. Euphemism to dysphemism, dysphemism to everyday.

Words only have the power we give them. If you don't like a particular word, shrug it off and teach kids to love some better ones. But good luck convincing anyone that "I'm extremely livid!" carries as much raw power as "I'm fucking pissed as hell!"

8^-