The correct pronunciation of "roof" can only be ascertained in context; for instance, when observing that the motherfucker is on fire, and agreeing that we don't need no water and said motherfucker should be allowed to burn.
First of all, it's "bubbeh" or "bubbe". It is not a homonym for "boobie", a familiar or casual name for "breast".
As I only realized when the Future of Fandom was learning to read, "o" is the "misc." of English vowels -- all kinds of different sounds are called "short o" or "long O". So to my ear, "book" and "hoof" have two different vowels, with "book" being closed to "hoop" while "hoof" is closer to "hup". "Woobie" is a bit ooo-ier than "book", though not as much as "hoop", while "w00t" is more like "hoot", or if anything ooo-ier.
it's not a homophone for the "breast" word at all, which is why i didn't give the dude-group pronunciation as an option on that question. but you'd be surprised how many people spell it that way, on the grounds that they spell the "long version" (which is actually a diminutive, so speaking of the other as being short for it is also not quite right) boobelah. wrong, wrong, wrong. but that's what happens when the yiddish words pervade the english language. ask any nebbish (correct spelling: nebech; correct pronunciation: nebekh).
so, yes, "bubbeh" or "bubbe" would be better; but either of these (especially the first) is likely to have the schwa-ending of "bubeleh", and i was interested in the high-front-vowel-ending of "bubbie" in particular.
what you describe as the "ooo-iness" of double-o vowels is indeed variable across and even within dialects. some of your variations may have something to do with the consonants following the vowels -- but i'd have to consider (a) a larger sample (b) at some hour other than 4:30 am. :-D
I've heard not-Gentiles pronounce "bubbie," so I know what it's supposed to sound like, but am unable to reproduce the exact vowel and therefore sound closer to "boobie."
My Wisconsin-bred college roommate and I used to mix it up at some length concerning her tendency to discuss events on the ruff-top or pulling weeds up by the rutts. She said I learned English from ghosts booOOOOoooOOOOO. "Hooves, my dear," I'd say. "NOT huffs."
I notice you didn't go there on paper root v. rowt, possibly because it's a whole other swatch o'sound.
In re the bubbie question, the first thing I thought of was young John Webster in Shakespeare in Love exclaiming of Gwyneth Paltrow's character that "I saw her bubbies!" He pronounced it in the obviously-Gentile sense. What's it mean in the sense you're thinking of? (I'm very obviously Gentile. I'd be painfully WASPy except that I'm not Protestant...)
he sort of did, didn't he -- but in my memory (i only saw the movie once), that vowel was a little more rounded than the one in (frex) "bubba", wasn't it?
anyway. in the sense i'm thinking of, bubbe -- pronounced with the book-vowel for the "u" and a schwa at the end -- is the yiddish word for "grandmother". it can also be pronounced with the higher "ee"-sounding vowel at the end, in which case it can also be used to mean "sweetheart" or "honey" or similar, either with or without sarcasm. (without, it's to be taken at face value. with, it's used the same way spanish speakers ironically use pobrecita.) in this pronunciation and usage, it's also occasionally spelled "bubbie", and is the first thing i thought of when people started using the word "woobie" -- which has never, ever, ever, in my mind, rhymed with "newbie".
Re: From a Gentile Texan Raised in California and imprisoned 13 years before the South Florida Mast.
[tries various pronounciations of "bubbie" out loud]
Unfortunately, my neck of the Georgia woods is a little short on Yiddish speakers to check me. South Florida was good for something besides palmetto bugs, it seems.
I'm still a little fuzzy on exactly what a woobie is, in the fannish sense, since I've only ever seen it in Mr. Mom, when applied to the younger child's security blanket. If I recall correctly, it was very close to bubbeh in sound.
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As I only realized when the Future of Fandom was learning to read, "o" is the "misc." of English vowels -- all kinds of different sounds are called "short o" or "long O". So to my ear, "book" and "hoof" have two different vowels, with "book" being closed to "hoop" while "hoof" is closer to "hup". "Woobie" is a bit ooo-ier than "book", though not as much as "hoop", while "w00t" is more like "hoot", or if anything ooo-ier.
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so, yes, "bubbeh" or "bubbe" would be better; but either of these (especially the first) is likely to have the schwa-ending of "bubeleh", and i was interested in the high-front-vowel-ending of "bubbie" in particular.
what you describe as the "ooo-iness" of double-o vowels is indeed variable across and even within dialects. some of your variations may have something to do with the consonants following the vowels -- but i'd have to consider (a) a larger sample (b) at some hour other than 4:30 am. :-D
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Good noot!
From a Gentile Texan Raised in California and imprisoned 13 years before the South Florida Mast...
My Wisconsin-bred college roommate and I used to mix it up at some length concerning her tendency to discuss events on the ruff-top or pulling weeds up by the rutts. She said I learned English from ghosts booOOOOoooOOOOO. "Hooves, my dear," I'd say. "NOT huffs."
I notice you didn't go there on paper root v. rowt, possibly because it's a whole other swatch o'sound.
And....tickbox. That is all.
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In re the bubbie question, the first thing I thought of was young John Webster in Shakespeare in Love exclaiming of Gwyneth Paltrow's character that "I saw her bubbies!" He pronounced it in the obviously-Gentile sense. What's it mean in the sense you're thinking of? (I'm very obviously Gentile. I'd be painfully WASPy except that I'm not Protestant...)
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Re: From a Gentile Texan Raised in California and imprisoned 13 years before the South Florida Mast.
really? huh. well -- i'm here to tell you that if you pronounce it with the vowel in book and so forth, you'll be fine. :-)
you are quite right that i wasn't, for this survey, interested in route or anything else. it was "oo" vowels i was interested in. athankyaverramuch.
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anyway. in the sense i'm thinking of, bubbe -- pronounced with the book-vowel for the "u" and a schwa at the end -- is the yiddish word for "grandmother". it can also be pronounced with the higher "ee"-sounding vowel at the end, in which case it can also be used to mean "sweetheart" or "honey" or similar, either with or without sarcasm. (without, it's to be taken at face value. with, it's used the same way spanish speakers ironically use pobrecita.) in this pronunciation and usage, it's also occasionally spelled "bubbie", and is the first thing i thought of when people started using the word "woobie" -- which has never, ever, ever, in my mind, rhymed with "newbie".
Re: From a Gentile Texan Raised in California and imprisoned 13 years before the South Florida Mast.
Unfortunately, my neck of the Georgia woods is a little short on Yiddish speakers to check me. South Florida was good for something besides palmetto bugs, it seems.
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