fox: my left eye.  "ceci n'est pas une fox." (not-fox)
fox ([personal profile] fox) wrote2006-06-08 04:22 pm
Entry tags:

well, we're in it now.

They got al-Zarqawi.  Everybody hunker down, wouldja?

[identity profile] kmg-365.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 04:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I read about the spiritual advisor. Apparently, he was the tip off that they had the right place.

And about these virgins...why the heck do they want n number of virgins?
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[identity profile] shezan.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 04:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Why young Muslims line up to die (http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/08/17/martyr.culture/index.html).

[identity profile] kmg-365.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 05:05 pm (UTC)(link)
they would have at their disposal 72 houris, the beautiful virgins of paradise

Here's the thing, Shez: I'd think they'd prefer having "at their disposal" (that's not the least bit offensive, is it?) 72 beautiful, disease free porn starlets. Or at least women of paradise who have actually had sex before, and would know umpteen different ways to please a man.

Call me crazy.
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[identity profile] shezan.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 06:00 pm (UTC)(link)
You, and my normal friends, would. These guys wouldn't. A woman is unclean if she's as much as let a man not her brother or father see her uncovered hair (or face.) I think I was most terrified by the tall order the West has taken on when reading this thoughtful piece by George Packer (http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040517fa_fact), in which we meet one educated member of the Iraqi middle-class - an emergency doctor whose other specialty is examining girls to give them virginity certificates (and he does that knowing full well their families will kill them if he reveals they're no longer virgins) or suspected gays for corroborating proof (whoch used to send them to the firing squad under Saddam.) Guy had absolutely no qualms or regrets, either.

[identity profile] kmg-365.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 06:04 pm (UTC)(link)
whose other specialty is examining girls to give them virginity certificates (and he does that knowing full well their families will kill them if he reveals they're no longer virgins)

Now, I'm no expert on the female anatomy, but how can he make this determination with complete certitude? As in, how does he know that his evidence was the result of sexual activity?

Sorry for hi-jacking your thread, Fox.
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[identity profile] shezan.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 06:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Tough luck on the girls...

[identity profile] kmg-365.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 06:22 pm (UTC)(link)
A mild understatement if there ever was one. And a stern wag of the finger to the parents, too.

[identity profile] darthfox.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 06:07 pm (UTC)(link)
how can he make this determination with complete certitude?

He can't. I'm not sure he can make it with any certitude. [livejournal.com profile] misia has written a book on the subject -- it's not on shelves yet, but there may still be snippets in her LJ that you might find interesting.
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[identity profile] shezan.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 06:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Of course he can't, but the girl is ostracised, and often killed, the minute there's doubt.

[identity profile] darthfox.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 06:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Of course she is. But I was answering [livejournal.com profile] kmg_365's question, which I understood not to be merely rhetorical. :-)

[identity profile] kmg-365.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 06:21 pm (UTC)(link)
It was sort of rhetorical. I was pretty certain that I knew the answer (assuming I am correct in assuming how he is checking her virginity), but I didn't want to state it as fact.

On account of I'm just a dumb male programmer. :-)

[identity profile] kmg-365.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 06:18 pm (UTC)(link)
He can't. I'm not sure he can make it with any certitude

And yet he presumes to do so. What a {insert favorite colorful word here}.

[identity profile] darthfox.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 06:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Well -- in what I'm going to charitably call fairness, a lot of people think it is possible to determine from a physical examination whether a woman has had sex or not. It's even likely that some of those people are medical practitioners. Apparently your original question, to say nothing of [livejournal.com profile] misia's extensive scholarship, has not occurred to them.

[identity profile] kmg-365.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 06:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Apparently your original question, to say nothing of misia's extensive scholarship, has not occurred to them.

Or perhaps it has, and they choose to dismiss it.

I don't have any children, but if I did, I couldn't imagine killing my daughter because some doctor looked at her and said "ayup...it done look like she's been a knockin' boots!" Even if I didn't believe in pre-marital sex.
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[identity profile] shezan.livejournal.com 2006-06-08 05:01 pm (UTC)(link)
... and this terrific piece from the New Yorker by Pakistani journalist Nasra Hassan: Talking to the human bombs (http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/011119fa_FACT1).