darthfox: Nick is trying to help me sort out which Master is which. [points] ellen_fremedon: I saw, yes. ellen_fremedon: I think Nick got it right in his last post. ellen_fremedon: Rotting Master is 13. ellen_fremedon: And he may or may not be the same incarnation as Delgado Master. ellen_fremedon: And then Ainley Master, in Tremas's body, is 14. ellen_fremedon: Who is presumably the one we saw exterminated at the beginning of the movie. ellen_fremedon: Though we don't in fact know that. ellen_fremedon: So Yellow-Eyed High Camp Master, in the movie, has to be *at least* the 15th. darthfox: but in terms of masters we've known, delgado was 1, rotter may or may not have been 2 but let's say he was, ainley/tremas was 3, so yellow-eyes is 4 darthfox: and thus jacobi is 5 and new guy is 6. [nods in satisfaction] ellen_fremedon: Yep yep yep. ellen_fremedon: And I think finesseing the weirder bits of the movie (the half-human thing and some of the Eye of Harmony business, and the bizarre abilities of High Camp Master) as regeneration-induced hallucinations means accepting the circumstances of the regeneration as canonical. Which means that the Master's extradition to Skaro following some unknown double-crossing of the Daleks and the Time Lords at once, and his execution, probably need to be taken as canon. ellen_fremedon: Which means that while the Master's being eaten by the TARDIS is of dubious canonicity, his stealing a body for a 15th incarnation is on pretty solid ground, too. ellen_fremedon: If we're *really* handwaving the movie, we could argue that the first body he stole following his extermination was the Derek Jacobi body, and Yana was Master 15. ellen_fremedon: But. ellen_fremedon: Even though the Master has evinced an ability to return from seemingly getting burnt up to nothing in a borrowed human body-- Ainley Master went up in smoke and returned with no explanation-- I think it's more reasonable and requires less canon-bending to assume that Master 15 eventually stole a second body, or else reaquired the ability to regenerate and did so, and that Yana was *at least* his 16th incarnation. ellen_fremedon: All of which basically means ellen_fremedon: that we don't have to worry about the Doctor running out of lives any time soon *g*. ellen_fremedon: And I think I'm going to go post all of this in your lj, in case Nick or anyone else wants to chime in. darthfox [11:10 AM]: Yes please!
no subject
Nick is trying to help me sort out which Master is which. [points]
I saw, yes.
I think Nick got it right in his last post.
Rotting Master is 13.
And he may or may not be the same incarnation as Delgado Master.
And then Ainley Master, in Tremas's body, is 14.
Who is presumably the one we saw exterminated at the beginning of the movie.
Though we don't in fact know that.
So Yellow-Eyed High Camp Master, in the movie, has to be *at least* the 15th.
but in terms of masters we've known, delgado was 1, rotter may or may not have been 2 but let's say he was, ainley/tremas was 3, so yellow-eyes is 4
and thus jacobi is 5 and new guy is 6. [nods in satisfaction]
Yep yep yep.
And I think finesseing the weirder bits of the movie (the half-human thing and some of the Eye of Harmony business, and the bizarre abilities of High Camp Master) as regeneration-induced hallucinations means accepting the circumstances of the regeneration as canonical. Which means that the Master's extradition to Skaro following some unknown double-crossing of the Daleks and the Time Lords at once, and his execution, probably need to be taken as canon.
Which means that while the Master's being eaten by the TARDIS is of dubious canonicity, his stealing a body for a 15th incarnation is on pretty solid ground, too.
If we're *really* handwaving the movie, we could argue that the first body he stole following his extermination was the Derek Jacobi body, and Yana was Master 15.
But.
Even though the Master has evinced an ability to return from seemingly getting burnt up to nothing in a borrowed human body-- Ainley Master went up in smoke and returned with no explanation-- I think it's more reasonable and requires less canon-bending to assume that Master 15 eventually stole a second body, or else reaquired the ability to regenerate and did so, and that Yana was *at least* his 16th incarnation.
All of which basically means
that we don't have to worry about the Doctor running out of lives any time soon *g*.
And I think I'm going to go post all of this in your lj, in case Nick or anyone else wants to chime in.
Yes please!