just a moment of fussing

[fox]

Okay. In fanfic that's set in the UK, or whose dialogue is spoken by people with UK accents, I admit that I can overlook "gotten". It's better if you don't use it, of course, because they don't, but since I do, it doesn't really bother me that much -- kind of a buzz that I can brush away and move on. (I try not to commit this myself, of course. I'm just saying.)

What I cannot allow, though, is drug as the past tense (or participle, for that matter) of drag. Good lord, I have not been so comprehensively yanked out of what I've been reading in ages. I don't have any problem with constructions like "That sentence ought to be drug out and shot", or "They drug the corpse into the light", or "He felt like his deepest secrets had been drug out from inside him" -- but I do when those constructions are supposed to be in the POV of (to take one example) Ianto bloody Jones, whom I haven't known for long but whose dialect I can just about assure you does not have this form. (It is frequent in rural areas of the -- especially southern -- United States, but in British dialects more or less obsolete. The OED notes it as "obsolete Scottish and English dialect usage", meaning it was off-standard even when it was in use, which was a long time ago and, still more importantly in Ianto's case, not Welsh or they'd have said so.)

Also, please stop capitalizing vocative "sir".

Comments

[thalia]

Have you started watching Torchwood then?

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

I've almost finished. :-) It was just waiting -- well, until I had access to it, which I now do. And until I'd seen the first season of the Tenth Doctor, because I like to keep things in order.

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

Yay for watching Torchwood!

I'm not sure I've ever seen a more clearly delineated woobie in my life. Ianto gets things in canon that I'd never have even THOUGHT of throwing at dear little Obi-Wan.

[thalia]

There's gotta be some story somewhere where Obi-Wan is almost eaten by cannibals.... The robot girlfriend, though, might be a bit much.

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

Almost eaten by cannibals, sure, but compared to veal?

[the-star-fish.livejournal.com]

Also, please stop capitalizing vocative "sir".

OMG so very yes. Sets my teeth on edge every damned time.

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom

Hmmm, interesting. Being British the thing that does really grate on me and I find it hard to overlook is 'gotten', has me grinding my teeth and wanting to bang my head against something hard, and I'm extremely forgiving in fiction.

And oddly enough I have *never* come across 'drug' in the way you are using it in either British or American fanfic; never. Nor have I in all my email correspondence with my American friends had them use the term.

Fascinating.

And I was taught that one did capitalise 'Sir', so there you go. Different times, I imagine.

metafandoming....

[carmarthen.livejournal.com]

And oddly enough I have *never* come across 'drug' in the way you are using it in either British or American fanfic; never. Nor have I in all my email correspondence with my American friends had them use the term.

Probably because it's so regional. I've lived in the U.S. my whole life (22 years) in various states (east, west, and central) and never heard anyone, even a Southern transplant, use "drug" as the past tense of "drag."

Which is why it puzzles me that it would crop up in fanfiction enough to bug people.

Re: metafandoming....

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this. I spent some time last night rerunning conversations in my mind. I even did a quick search through some of my American friends emails, just in case I was remembering incorrectly.

I always find differences interesting.

[fionn-a-bhair.livejournal.com]

The one that really yanks me right out is 'anyways.' I'm quite likely to close the page then because it annoys me just that much.

[lim.livejournal.com]

*grins*

Anyways, Rose's gotten burned someplace and the Doc...

[fionn-a-bhair.livejournal.com]

*falls off desk due to sudden brain stem death*

Exactly!

Here via metafandom

[erehwon6.livejournal.com]

I've never seen drug (in that context) in a fanfic; but have heard it in a song [country music - yes I know] and that was annoying enough.

Not to mention it could well mean a sentence wouldn't make sense [to a Brit anyway]. "They drug the corpse into the light" ... why would anyone medicate a corpse? (or are they bringing someone back to life?)

'Gotten' would grate, but could possibly be excused. I'm not exactly well versed in the various dialects of the country. So maybe people really do use it in some part of the country; or it could just fit a particular character.

Hmm always thought you were meant to capitalise 'sir', oh well.

Re: Here via metafandom

[snorkackcatcher]

'Gotten' would grate, but could possibly be excused. I'm not exactly well versed in the various dialects of the country. So maybe people really do use it in some part of the country; or it could just fit a particular character.

We don't use it. believe me. :) It's one of those usages that were current British English around the time of the Pilgrim Fathers, but have since fallen out of use, even if they made better sense from the purist point of view than what replaced them ('fall' instead of the Gallicesque 'autumn' for the season between summer and winter is another). As a usage, it makes sense and is growing on me personally, but then I see a lot of online writing from Americans! But 'gotten' and the like nowadays tend to sound like signature Americanisms, and they do grate when used in dialogue by clearly British characters, just because they wouldn't really be used -- probably not even by somebody steeped in US popular culture.

Re: Here via metafandom

[erehwon6.livejournal.com]

Oh right, interesting. :)
Thanks for that.

Re: Here via metafandom

[nakeisha.livejournal.com]

why would anyone medicate a corpse? (or are they bringing someone back to life?)

Now I have an image of Jimmy panicking and trying to do this very thing *shakes head* (Possibly even aided by Ducky).

Hmm always thought you were meant to capitalise 'sir', oh well.

And it's doubly interesting as we're not in the same age group, or from the same part of Britain. And yet, I was taught to. Hmmm.

Re: Here via metafandom

[erehwon6.livejournal.com]

LOL :)

Hmm that is interesting (there can't be many people who'd admit to not being 21, lol).

[shaggydogstail.livejournal.com]

Here via metafandom. I've only seen that use of "drug" once or twice, but that was enough to make me twitchy. "Gotten" seems much more frequent so it tends to annoy me more.

The capitalised sir drives me nuts as well. Jack Harkness may be many things but he is not, so far as I'm aware, a Knight of the Realm. Grr.

[angiepen.livejournal.com]

[Here from metafandom. [wave]]

"Drug" as the past tense of "drag" isn't proper American English either. I've seen it in various places and I think it might be regional -- Southern, maybe? I can deal with it if it's a cowboy fic, or if the character speaking is from the American South, or is socio-economically disadvantaged (trying really hard not to be offensive here) but seeing a British character use it, or a well-educated American character just gets me gritting my teeth. :/

Angie

[jacquez.livejournal.com]

Even well-educated, non-Southern American characters may use it idiomatically. ("drug out into the street and shot" is the "proper" form of that phrase, for example.)

Speaking as a non-Southern American with a master's degree (in English) who has used that phrase many a time. :)

[angiepen.livejournal.com]

Of course there are exceptions. :) Idioms come with their own rules, and that's fine. An educated person who's deliberately using a very slangy or street or otherwise dialectical expression will make "errors" in their English. An idiom or other "off the shelf" string of words might not be proper standard American (or British) English, but might be correct in and of itself.

My complaint is when "drug" is used non-idiomatically by a character whom I feel, because of how they use the language otherwise, wouldn't use that word. It seems like the writer uses it in everyday speech (and I know one or two writers who use this word in their stories well enough to know that they do use it when just talking -- I'm just assuming with the others) and doesn't know that everyone else doesn't. Rules should be broken deliberately and for a reason, because you want to achieve a certain effect, not accidentally because the writer didn't know any better. [wry smile]

Angie

[pensnest]

(via metafandom)

I'm rather sad that we do not have 'gotten' any longer - at least not in RP, which is what I speak. I like the word. Much more euphonious than 'got'. But on 'drug', I will stand with you shoulder to shoulder. I like it *only* when used, hmm, ironically.

[jacquez.livejournal.com]

fwiw -- although hp_britglish is Harry Potter fandom-specific, 2 things: 1) like the community rules say, you can just not say that it's not for Harry Potter, and the mod (me) will never track you down and make you prove it. 2) there's a LOT of stuff in the memories that is probably widely useful for people writing in any UK-based fandom, and the memories are available to anyone at all.

[darthfox.livejournal.com]

[parses this] You'd like me to post this over there, is that it? (Because I knew both -1- and -2-. I like that comm! 's been quiet lately, though, eh?)

[jacquez.livejournal.com]

Oh -- no, no, I was just saying that if anyone reading the comments here is all "well, how do I find out what people actually DO say, then?", there's a resource available. They'd just have to be a mite sneaky if they want to ask. :)

[abby-i.livejournal.com]

There's also a DW equivalent, dw_britglish for those wanting a more specific community for their questions. :)

[nolivingman.livejournal.com]

I have the exact opposite problem with UK writers creating USA-based fics, so I feel your pain. I'm reading a really long fic right now and it's well written, but every time these American characters get "into the lift" to go up or down or say "Fancy a cup of coffee?" I cringe.

I don't think people appreciate the benefits of having an across-the-pond beta to read over their work.

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

I'm an Australian who writes X-Men, and I always find an American beta. The very first fic I wrote had a British-ism in it that I would never have guessed, and it was sheer chance that my beta was American - since then, I've tried to be aware. People who write in British fandoms and don't bother to get British English even vaguely right annoy me, so I feel it's only fair to extend the same courtesy to American fandoms. I hope the idea spreads!

[inamac.livejournal.com]

As an Englishwoman, I try to avoid writing fic in American fandoms as it's not just the language, but the whole cultural background that makes slip-ups obvious (I can barely get my head round the UK school system, let alone the US one!) I do sympathise with Australian fandom - Australia has a rich and varied version of English (especially the colourful oaths!) and it's a great pity that the TV companies haven't managed to distribute quality Auzzie drama more widely (I'm eternally grateful to the friends who sent me copies of The Fast Lane, a sadly ignored 80s detective series which would have a huge ship fandom if there were any justice.)